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If anyone sniffed out the desperation behind this question, you can rest peacefully, because I was able to use the kernel in Debian backports and get my RME interface working again.

@andreasgoebel Yep, I do understand about class compliance, but I happen to know people with so-called class compliant devices that don't work at all or well on Linux. One of those devices happens to be the Tascam Studio Bridge, which is a very similar product. So I'm a bit concerned about having a giant mixer shipped to my house that may or may not work lol.

@alisynthesis Maybe ask at linuxmusicians.com then, there might be people who use that device.

@andreasgoebel good idea, thank you!

@xenogon I'm using the Digiface USB, which some hero made drivers for in the latest linux kernel.

I've had it running for a couple months, but it's not been perfectly stable, and a kernel updated created a snafu.

Fortunately, I've been able to do some kernel re-organizing and it seems to be working nicely again, so yay! Pretty cool to have 32 I/O in Linux! :)

@alisynthesis ah OK, I know nothing about those. I still have a couple of firewire RME interfaces, but performance on linux was much less good with ffado than with RME drivers on mac. That's all ancient history now I guess. They still work on mac though, amazingly!

@xenogon yeah, Linux audio is kind of a world of pain if you're trying to do anything slightly out of the ordinary. But once you do get things set up and working, they seem to keep working basically forever.

It does seem much better today than it was years ago. (I haven't used Linux for at least eight years until recently.)

And also, I'm a glutton for pain.

@alisynthesis

last time I tried seriously (2019) I found things broke a lot.

I get serious "I'm too old for this shit" feelings when I look at it now. But apple keep enshittifying further and I want to have a plan.

are you using pipewire?

I also found bitwig worked well on linux, but i never really got on with bitwig, though if was doing mostly midi that would probably change.

I'm on Reaper and likely to remain so.

I found though that Reaper was fine on linux it was driver performance, with inconsistent latencies between restarts and lack of some top plugins that keep me away now.

@xenogon So I have a slightly strange situation, because my interface isn't class compliant and just recently had a driver module added to the Linux kernel by someone who's awesome. I wouldn't suggest that situation if you don't want to fuck around with it! :D

I'm using ALSA directly in Bitwig, which I think is the most stable way to go, although Pipewire is working great for my day-to-day audio stuff. (cont)

@xenogon

I don't believe that Reaper or Ardour will use Pipewire out of the box, and I imagine there's a reason for that.

I would say that if you have an interface that's known to work well with Linux, you probably won't have any overwhelming issues at this point. Very different from 10 years ago, last time I tried it!

As for plugins -- I guess you just have to be sick enough of Apple Microsoft etc to just say fuck it! (cont)

@xenogon

I've been moving to using hardware over software the last few years, so I don't care too much about plugins at this point. Honestly, my musical interaction w/ the computer at this point is pretty much just tape machine + light mixing/mastering duties. This works much better for me, although I know it's not for everyone!

@xenogon

Overall, I would say that, no, you won't have an Apple-like experience with Linux audio stuff, but for me the tradeoff (software freedom, no lock-in, not contributing to a company I find morally questionable at best, etc.) is well worth it.

@xenogon

oh, it's worth noting that I do ZERO sequencing of hardware that's time-synced to the DAW anymore, as I find that to be a recipe for madness. So I don't have any experience with that on this system -- just the audio bits.

If I had to guess, I would guess that experience would be at least as bad on Linux as on Windows, and probably not nearly as smooth as on a Mac.

@alisynthesis

My recent brief experience with linux audio was setting up a laptop to use as a synth (u-he Diva played from a Snyderphonics Manta).

The main issue I found was that i started with Mint and their OOTB pipewire install is hopelessly broken.

Once I got that sorted I found that Reaper works fine with the pipewire-jack front end.

That said I didn't really stress test beyond checking that latency was acceptable for live playing.

In 2018-19 I was trying to use my Fireface 800 and 400 interfaces using ffado and jack.

Unfortunately my idea of "known to work well" and that of most posters (and devs) on linux audio forums is very different. Simply 'passes clean audio' is nowhere near enough!

We are 70% real instruments, more if you discount virtual pianos.

I don't use external synth hardware at all. (I have a small modular setup but it hasn't gotten much actual use). I'm a fan of reality, but have caved when it comes to synths and keyboards. We use pianoteq and u-he Diva, (both astonishingly good) and sometimes other synths, and sequencing is mostly just playing back a recorded midi live performance on keyboard or EWI, and maybe fixing a few mistakes. To get a more real OTB sound I'll often play synths out through a (carefully chosen) speaker and mic and re-record - though I rarely do that with faux acoustic pianos, as it isn't a sufficiently hi-fi process.

..cont

@alisynthesis

....
For plugins, I feel linux is well served for synths, but poorly for high end mixing/mastering tools.

If I switched to linux I'd need to replace:
FabFilter Pro-Q
DMG Audio Limitless (and equick)
Goodhertz Panpot (shouldn't be that hard you'd think)
Oddsound MTS-ESP
TDR Ultrasonic and Infrasonic

I've not seen anything on that level for linux mix/master plugins yet.

I haven't yet found a compressor I'm really comfortable with on any platform. There's so many out there and so few that give me the sort of control I want. Contenders are Pro-C, Cenozoix, Compassion, none of which are linux compatible. I do use reacomp a lot for simple transparent lookahead compression and that's part of reaper so still available.

I really tried to just live with the plugins available on linux before, but in the end it was the 'it works fine for me' attitude from people who'd never done a loopback latency test that was the last straw.

That said consistency of latencies on linux seem to have improved with recent kernels and I feel there may be hope.

@alisynthesis

BTW, if you are using Bitwig mostly as a tape recorder how do you find audio editing? I own Bitwig v3 (?) and have never updated or used it for a completed project, even though I like the midi functions (per note expression etc), because the audio editing seemed just incredibly fussy and complex compared to Reaper. (I have tried demos of v5. but not extensively).

I've never got on with DAWs that have a loop based paradigm, even if they allow linear audio editing. There's something very basic about the mindset of making music with loops and clips that I just don't get.

I know that Bitwig doesn't enforce a loop/clip based paradigm entirely, but it does seem to infuse the whole thing. I feel like I almost really like Bitwig, but I'm missing something (or else they are).

@xenogon on the other hand, their synths and effects are frickin' AWESOME. If you haven't played with how everything modulates everything, I'd suggest having some fun with a demo of the latest version. It might be worth dealing with a little discomfort in other areas if you use those kinds of tools.

Or maybe making music in Bitwig, then moving to Reaper or Ardour for editing/mixing. That's what I was doing with Bitwig/S1 on Windows.

@alisynthesis Yes I'm a big u-he fan, for their synths, but they are just not really a mixing tool company. I do own their compressor, Presswerk, which is ok/good but it's a character compressor not a mixing mastering compressor, with a vintage style interface and not a forensic/utility tool.

I'm not aware of a u-he EQ, certainly not one that is in any way comparable with Pro-Q or the DMG EQs. There's filterscape, but it's more of a creative effect than a mix tool.

The suite of synths and effects and modulation possibilities in bitwig is indeed awesome, and if I were primarily making ITB synth music again I'd probably use bitwig for that. I had a lot of fun with the Grid.

Writing music here mostly starts with lyrics and a guitar or similar, and some notes on paper. Or much more commonly Helen writes a song on piano or viola and then I pick it to bits and then we rebuild it, but it's a pretty analogue process with reaper used as a sketch pad, but synths are added as condiments and counterpoint later.

If you are not doing in the box editing, how are you editing your audio takes? I assume that's something everyone needs to do in some way?

@alisynthesis I also have U-he satin, which is a tape emulator, and can be really nice on a mix or a bus in some circumstances.

What I'm missing is boring but powerful EQ, compression, and master limiting on linux. With good lookahead functions on the dynamics.

For forensic problem solving, emphasising or de-emphasising tracks, and general mix shaping and level control in a fairly transparent way.

@xenogon I could be mis-remembering what my friend said. At any rate, I'm not the person to ask about Linux plug-ins, because I don't really use 'em. :)

@alisynthesis So are you mixing & mastering with outboard processing gear and no editing? I'm not really understanding how you use it!

@xenogon yep, that's exactly right. trying to get the mix totally right through outboard gear before recording, VERY minor editing (just cutting really) and volume automation, and then mastering through outboard gear.

I haven't seriously mastered anything like this yet, but I like the results so far.

But this type of production is pretty new for me, so come back to me in a year. :D

Also, the type of music I'm making right now is conducive to this approach. Lots of music isn't, for sure.